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藝術或者音樂能否向自我傳遞臨在？
問：我通過音樂經驗到了臨在，這是一種非常美妙的感覺，我感到……我正在被演奏，我感到自己是一個樂器。在某種程度上，我們稱之為樂器的反而是聲音。我的問題是關於與那個創造者，以及那些被創造出來的作品之間的連接。藝術或者音樂能否向自我傳遞臨在？一個人該如何成為這顯化的一部分，但又不涉入過深，怎樣能夠保持距離，才不至於太沈浸在這個過程中？
埃克哈特：一方面，你有這個創造的過程 – 音樂，或是藝術。然後，你有了成品 – 被演奏的樂曲，或是被觀賞的作品。
當你問：“藝術或者音樂能否向自我傳遞臨在？” – 自我對臨在一無所知，所以答案是不能。必須在自我中有些敞開，你才能夠接收到來自於那個深處的音樂或藝術中所存在的能量。
有很多音樂和藝術並不一定是從那深處被創造出來的，而是自我想要顯得更聰明。讓我們來談談那些真正從寧靜，或臨在的連接之中誕生的音樂或藝術作品。在一定程度上，這個藝術作品，或者這首曲子，仍然攜帶著那個能量場。它可以連接上一個人內在更深的次元。這需要有一些敞開。如果僅僅有自我的密度，那麼這個轉化的可能性將得不到實現。需要觀賞者或者聆聽者的一些敞開，這樣傾聽一首樂曲或者欣賞一件藝術作品將成為很棒的一件事。也許僅僅是短暫的一刻，你可以被帶走，進入那警覺的寧靜之中，這作品正是從那兒而來。這是很美的一件事。
另一方面是“迷失自己” – 進入得太深，幾乎在創造力發源之地迷失了自己。在創造的過程中，總是需要一個平衡你才不至於在存在中迷失自己。這可能發生在一個藝術家或者靈性上覺醒的人身上 – 他們突然如此地深入到存在裡，以至於失去了對“做”的全部興趣。這曾經發生在一些靈性大師的身上，他們花上幾年時間只是存在，什麼也不做。
比如，印度的拉瑪那·瑪哈希被餵食了幾年，因為他甚至不能拿起食物。他如此融入存在之中，就只是坐在那裡。人們意識到某種不尋常的事情發生在他身上 – 在西方人們可能意識不到 – 他們將食物放入他的嘴裡。但這必然失去了一些平衡，他失去了在世間生活的能力。這個當然是一個極端的例子。慢慢地，幾年之後，他開始重新獲得這種能力，他在應對外在事物和與存在保持連接之間取得了平衡。這樣的情形也曾比較輕微地發生在我身上，那時我完全失去了“做”的興趣，閒晃了兩年。這對我來說不是個“問題”，只是對那些看著我，或者認識我的人來說，才是個問題。這樣有一段失去平衡的時間，但漸漸地這個平衡會自己重建。我並沒有上師，就是這樣，它是一個自然的過程。
你只要進入內在，為那個休眠於無形之中的東西賦予形式，為它所用 – 這樣通過你，它可以進入這個有形世界。不要留在那裡而迷失你自己 – 沒有這個必要。
音樂是一個與內在的寧靜連接的美妙的方式。
然而，對聆聽者來說，有一件重要的事，那就是不要依賴任何幫助你進入臨在狀態的外在事物。音樂固然可以是一個助力，但同樣的，這也需要一個平衡。如果你只能在聆聽某種音樂時才能變得寧靜，那麼這不太對，因為你在依賴外在事物與存在連接。只是作為一個幫助來使用它，就像一位靈性導師或是靈性教導一樣 – 聆聽一卷錄音帶或是看一個視頻，會有很大的幫助，但不要完全依賴那個。每一位好的靈性導師都會告訴你，當時機成熟，“夠了就是夠了”。真正的老師在你的內在。你在我身上所看到的，那個你在我身上發現的珍貴的東西，一定也存在於你之內 – 否則你不可能看到它。一個好的老師總是引導你回到自身，而不是助長任何形式的依賴。
知道什麼會有幫助，利用它，但不依賴它。最終你必須不借助任何外力也能到達那裡。你仍然會感激老師們，感激這些教導。我喜歡聆聽其他的靈性導師，如果他們是來自於深處。我會非常高興，我會想“哇，這真是太棒了”。或者閱讀一本來自於最深處的靈性教導的書籍 – 這仍然帶給我很多樂趣。這與需要無關，我享受著對於同樣深的真理的不同表達。這簡直太棒了。
同樣的，你也可以看見它，無論它在哪裡 – 無論它隱藏於何種形式之中。你可以看見真理在它隱藏之處閃耀著光芒。它也許隱藏在古老的宗教中，隱藏得非常深。你看見它在那裡，穿透出來閃耀著 – 也許有很多神話圍繞著它，很多文化的信仰圍繞著它，但在那深處，你仍然可以看見這是真理，它穿透所有圍繞著它的神話和其他的東西，閃耀著。你就是它。
Q: I’ve experienced Presence through music, and it’s a very profound sense of Grace that I feel… I am being ‘played’, in a sense I am an instrument. In a way, what we call instruments are voices. My question is about this connection to the Creative, and the artifacts that come. Does art and music inform the ego of Presence? How does one be part of that manifestation but not get too involved, to keep the distance, so one doesn’t become to obsessed with that process?
ET: On the one hand, you have the creative process – music, or art. And then you have the finished product – the piece of music that is played, or the work of art that somebody contemplates.
When you ask, “Can art or music inform the ego of Presence?” – the ego doesn’t know anything about Presence, so it can’t do that. There needs to be some opening in the ego in order [for you] to be receptive to the power that is latent in music or art, that was created from that deep place.
There’s a lot of music and art that’s not necessarily created from that deep place, but the ego is trying to be clever. Let’s talk about some piece of music or work of art that comes out of connectedness with Stillness, or Presence. To some extent, the work of art or the piece of music still carries that energy field. It can put [a person] in touch with the deeper dimension within. A there’s a little bit of an opening is required. If there’s only the density of the ego, then the transformational possibilities of art or music are not realized. A little opening is required in the viewer, or the listener, and then it can be quite a wonderful thing to listen to music or to contemplate a work of art. You can be transported, if only for a moment, into that alert stillness out of which it originally came. That’s a beautiful thing.
Another aspect is “losing oneself” – going too deep, almost losing oneself in the ground out of which creativity comes. In the creative process, there’s always a balance that’s needed, so that you don’t lose yourself in Being. It could happen to an artist, it can happen to some people who awaken spiritually – they suddenly plunge so deeply into Being that they lose all interest in doing. That happened to some spiritual masters, who spent several years being without doing anything.
For example, Ramana Maharshi in India had to be fed for several years because he would not even pick up food. He was so immersed in Being that he just sat there. People recognized something extraordinary about him – which they would not have done in the West – and they put food in his mouth. But there was certainly a loss of balance, he could no longer function in this world. This of course, is an extreme example. Gradually, after a few years he was beginning to function again, and he was able to regain a balance between dealing with things out here and connectedness with Being. In a slightly minor way it happened to me, when I lost interest completely in ‘doing’ and drifted around for two years. It wasn’t a “problem” to me, it was only a problem to people who were watching me, or who knew me. So there was a loss of balance for a while, but gradually the balance re-established itself. I didn’t have a teacher, as such, so it turned out to be a natural process.
As long as you go within, and give form to that which is resting in the formless, be used by it – so that through you it can come into this world of form. Don’t stay down there and lose yourself in it – that’s not necessary.
Music is a wonderful way of getting in touch with the stillness within.
For the listener, it is important not to become dependent, however, on anything external to enter the state of Presence. Whereas music can be a help, there too needs to be a balance. If the only time you can become still is when you listen to a certain kind of music, then that’s not quite it, because you are depending on something external to get in touch with that. Use it as a help, and this is the same as a spiritual teacher or spiritual teaching – it can be a great help to listen to a tape or see a video, but don’t become totally dependent on that. Every good spiritual teacher will tell you, when the time comes “enough is enough”. The true teacher is within you. What you see in me, that which you find so precious in me, must be in you – otherwise you wouldn’t see it. A good teacher will always direct you back to yourself, and not foster any kind of dependency.
Knowing what is a help, using it, but not becoming dependent. Eventually it is necessary for you to go there without any help. You can still appreciate teachers, and teachings. I love listening to other spiritual teachers if they come from a deep place, I have great joy, and I think “Wow, this is so wonderful”. Or reading a spiritual book that comes from the deepest place – there’s still great joy in that. It has nothing to do with needing, it’s enjoying a slightly different expression of the same deep truth. It’s wonderful.
Also, you can see it wherever it is – no matter in what form it is hiding. You can see the truth shining through wherever it is hiding. It might be hiding in some ancient religion, very deeply. There you see it, shining through – there may be a lot of mythology around it, a lot of cultural beliefs around it, and yet deep down there you can see this is the truth, shining through all the mythology around it and so on. It is who you are.
